Tarot Cards

[:D Smilee :D]

Hey... i got a tarot deck (mine is Tarot of a Moon Garden), but anyway.... i was wondering... does anyone know any good spreds for the cards? I know like two, but i want one using alot of cards, not 4 or 10 like my spreads do.

Someplace where i could get a detailed description would be useful as well as i couldnt find anything myself.

[David87]

Satan is in the cards! Satan is the cards!

[William One Sac]

You should ask helen. She said she really used to be into the occult, black magic and stuff like that.

Someone read my fortune a while back and much of the stuff came true! 8D

[agentmoulder254]

That stuff's all bullshit, it's just cold reading, where they "forsee(sp?) your future" based on your appearance and disposition and such.

[helen]

W.OS
I practised ,not involved in any sect......Which was a good thing.

Most of the tarot card readings I did was for fun and it started at high School......during lunch or free time , I would do seances with friends and stuff.....Never got involved in the ''Dark '' side of the occult.

Although whatever you call it, it is not good........

Tarot is alot of bull....

The future cannot be known!

The reader often will mind read.........this comes from the devil .
So in actual fact all that does happen is that your mind is being read by demons ........Truly!

IX
helen.

W.O.S what exactly came true if I may ask ?

Dont bother with that stuff......
We all love you and care.....isn't that what's important?

[David87]

Helen, you seem to take the veiw point that psychic phenomena is of the Devil and controlled by demons. I have often wondered about this myself. Do you believe this to be the case for all or just those such as with people who play with magic? I play Magic: the Gathering (difference there, at least I hope. I rebuke any evil forces from my cards) :D
When you use Tarot cards and Ouija boards it opens you to evil spirits and negative energies. In all things like this there are magic tricks, mind games, psychic powers, and spiritual happenings. Because of the psychic and spiritual events, you have to be very careful or not be involved at all. I can tell you all kinds of horror stories about the forces of darkness being unleashed.

[William One Sac]

I dont buy that the tarot is bull, judging by my own personal experiences. I really do believe in witches, but not the kind that wear pointy hats and fly brooms. I do think they do have some kind of powers, but not the type you see on tv. Something more fundemental, using nature as a means to an end.

[David87]

There are the witches that worship Satan and believe they can get power from him, and the ones that worship nature and believe they get power from it. Personally, I don't believe in getting power from anywhere but science and God. Even though I'm Christian though, I've been playing around with a cross between Feng Shui and numerology in my head, but more real science and math and less mysticism.

[helen]

They are all ONE and the SAME!

It's a trick......Its a LIE..

People use to worship nature in the early times.....it makes no diff if one uses whatever means to get Fortune telling.....

In the Bible (Yep, i'm going back to the Bible)it tells us that WHATEVER means of fortune telling there is, if it involves the use of conjuring up spirits or cards or divination, it all is a LIE.

iT all corrupts the Soul.......because that is what the devil wants to do.......Fortune telling is nothing more then lies.....The person that does the reading DOES NOT EVEN know this on many occasions.
They can use prayer to whomever........if it is not a Gift from God to warn someone for their saving their SOUL then it is not from God........although it's not as easy as this to recognize.

The Devil always finds ways to deceive ......because he does not want man to be close to God.....he rejected God and wanted to Be GOD and this all started from the garden of Eden.....He lied to Eve about knowing all knowledge and becoming God And that they would not DIE ......he mixed Truth with LIES...
That's what fortune telling does.....it mixes things up.
It get's you thinking and then beleive it as being TRUTH.

Mind reading is what the DEVIL and his demons are good at and this way the person actually beleives that the fortune teller is somewhat GIFTED to know beyong time!

I cannot convince anyone..one has to experience or understand this on their own terms......when the time is right for them.

anyway..I talk too much....
IX
helen

[David87]

Many in the Bible were prophets and they saw the future, but that was from God. I wonder sometimes how much power the Devil has, such as if he can see into the future as well. If so, then he could show people visions of the future, or lies, depending on the situation. God is only good, only truth, according to the Bible. But I believe the Devil is evil but also adapts to the situation to release good or evil, truth or lie, in his favor. Some can be blind, others can not, so for those that open their eyes, they have to see part of the picture. We don't see the whole picture until we are joined with God in Heaven. That seems to be the situation from where I am standing.
As for fortune telling, it is true that sometimes fortunes come true and sometimes they don't. Sometimes, they come true because the person believes that they are true. That is the main "mind game" that I was talking about. People can cause things to happen to themselves or others based on their beliefs and feelings.

[helen]

David I agree with you!

There are differences in God's revelation and those of Mistic or whatever they are called by...
Sometimes it is very hard for us to know which is true or which is a lie....so in this case, it is best that we avoid all future seers!

If we lead a life in goodness and pray with a HUMBLE heart asking God for direction in our prayers....then whatever befalls us THANK God for all that He gives us be it suffering or well being then God knows this and in His time will allow Himself to be recognized in someones heart..

Christians in the first century understood all this and knew that LIFE WAS NOT GOING TO BE EASY.....in fact....if you read the life of many of the early fathers, you will see that all of them had some sort of Suffering..and this in fact kept them knowing God was with them...God allows the Devil to TEMPT us as He was also Tempted as man...

Many of the Old Prophets or should I say all of then were tempted from the Devil(of-course with God allowing this to be done)this temptation sometimes works in favour of man so that we can come to knowing the TRUE God....

If we go through life not knowing pain or suffering we most certainly forget God and get on with our lives.....but when we have sufferings(all sorts) we come to know God because our SOUL thirsts for God......many times we do not see or know this.........

David, the DEVIL has only enough power from which is ALLOWED from God not anymore!
If we allow ourselves to be influenced by the LIES of the devil or his demons then it is our FREE WILL ......God does not Intervene in our FREE WILL ...as He did not Intevene in the FREE WILL of Adam and Eve.......He allowed them the Choice to be tempted ........This caused MAN to fall away from God ..........But the redemption came when God took Flesh and became MAN .The Son of God ....and freed us from the original Sin ......that is ''DEATH FROM GOD''....Christ resurrected to show us that DEATH is not just being buried in the griund and that's IT!
Death will come to all of us........we age grow old and die.....but that is not the end......after that judgement comes to each and everyone of us.........
Then there's the JUDGEMENT OF THE WHOLE WORLD......in what is described in Revelation......the Church Age ....we are living at the LAST CHURCH AGE ...of which St John speaks of.....The Church being ''neither HOT OR COLD'' but LUKEWARM...meaning we are a bit of this and a bit of that....therefore He spits us out of His mouth........meaning that God does not want a person who is lukewarm in FAITH ...but true Faith because He knows that we could be deceived by the Devil.......
This is why He would allow all the deceptions to occur..
QUOTE//
Therefore, the Apostle emphasize very strongly in their warning about the end of the world that we must beware of deception. St. Paul says in II Thessalonians 2:9-11: “The coming of the lawless one,
by the activity of Satan,
will be with all power and signs and lying wonders… God shall send (that is, allow) a strong delusion, that men should believe a lie.” That is, it will be something very deceptive.

In fact,
we know that the elect themselves might be deceived if the times will not be cut short.
Christ Himself warns,
in speaking of the last days, that “false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect” (Matt. 24:24).
And in the Apocalypse,
St. John states that the last times will be characterized by “demonic spirits working wonders” (Apoc. 16:14).
Therefore, one of the sings of the coming of the end is the multiplication of demonic signs and wonders, i.e. false miracles and things of that sort.

http://www.holy-transfiguration.org/library_en/mod_signs5.html

IX
helen

[helen]

Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils (1 Tim. 4:1).

Quote//////Unlike animals, human beings cannot find complete contentment in the good things of this earth alone. Sooner or later they begin to thirst for a spiritual element in their lives, and then they encounter a whole series of fundamental questions: Why are they alive? What is the purpose of their existence? Is there something beyond the physical world? etc. Christianity helps man break away from the grind of everyday life, to find meaning in life and to develop the more noble qualities of his soul.

"Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Thy name? and in Thy name have cast out devils? and in Thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from Me, ye that work iniquity" (Matt.7:22-23).


Christ came to save us from the power of the devil and from slavery to sin.
"Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth ever. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed" (John 8:34-35).
In the sacrament of Baptism man casts off the chains of vice and receives from Christ the power to wage war against his evil inclinations.
There is no passion, no vice, which a man cannot conquer with God’s help. It is only necessary to enter decisively into combat with sin and to begin to lead a spiritual life to pray, to repent, to receive Holy Communion and to ask God for help.
Note that in the process of overcoming his faults man grows and becomes stronger. This process of interior growth contains the purpose of our earthly life.

http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/dragon_e.htm#_Toc523277785

IX
helen

[David87]

Yes, I know. I have read most of the Bible and remember much of it, because I am gifted with a good memory. I haven't been to church in a really long time though and I don't read my Bible as much I should, but I want to do those things so I can "recharge" my spirit. I do know that the Bible warns us of false signs and miracles, but it also warns us not to completely ignore such events. It tells us not to worry about the end and no man knows the time it will come, but it also says that we will know the time by the signs, just like with nature. We should also know they ways of the enemy to not be decieved by his ways, but that does not mean practicing witchcraft, just knowing what it is and how it works.
Now, I don't consider myself a lukewarm Christian, but if I am then God can spit me out if that is what he thinks is just. My fate is in his hands and I understand that. However, my faith is not as strong as it used to be, and because I am intellectual, I tend to find myself as an unbiased observer sometimes. I am like Agent Moulder (the one on this site and the one in X-Files) I know the truth is out there, I know there are things that I don't know and are beyond me, I have ideas, I just don't know what is really true. By what faith I have I do, but I want more than faith. I want to believe. I also want to find the truth. I feel only time will tell.

(Happy 400th post! Do I get a prize? :) )

[agentmoulder254]

When I reached 400, I became a moderator.

[helen]

<QUOTE><I>Originally posted by agentmoulder254</I>
When I reached 400, I became a moderator.</QUOTE>
So How old are you now Agentmoulder254???

:)
IX
helen

[agentmoulder254]

None of your business

[Wanderer]

Honestly I don't believe that Tarot Cards predict the future...prove me wrong.

Tarot Cards existe because someone made them and that someone is no more no less than a human being so it can't be magical.

[David87]

Magic is what people call what they do not understand, do not want to understand, or do not want someone else to understand. No individual person, place, or thing has power or substance in and of itself except that which is endowed upon it by nature. However, this changes with how something is viewed and used. Where something is used as a weapon, it is a weapon. Where something is used as a tool, it is a tool. Where something is given meaning and significance, it has meaning and significance. The tarot is made "magic" because that is what some people believe it to be.
Also, there are many forces that flow through the universe: neutral forces like gravity (basically the laws of nature as we know them), forces of good, forces of evil, forces that we act upon, and ones that act upon us. Sometimes, the tarot reader will channel these forces through the cards, making them a tool, and a tool of darkness according to us Christians. You can believe however you want, but believing in a lie instead of the truth only gives the lie power. Most of the time it's hard (or even impossible) to know what is true and what is not though without scientific proof. That is one of the reasons that humanity has a thing called faith.

[helen]

David you are correct about magic....

What we should know is that the DEVIL is more cunning then man....he is triple smart and therefore that is why in Revelation he is called 666.....The power the Antichrist receives from Satan will be 3 times more then man can ever be...

666....is the number of man........man was created on the 6th day....
The Antichrist will be 3 times more cunning because he will receive power from Satan .......and therefore will fool man more readily..

We are fooled into beleiving that magic and miracles are one and the same....
We need scientific proof for both.......but we know that this is not possible....

In order that man be fooled , the devil confuses man with LIES and man becomes confused...

The devil wants man to fall like he is fallen......and the road he took was away from God because he wanted to become God.....so therefore he wants man to take that same road.....
Wide and easy road......it's easier for man to do because there is no obsticles in the way.......one easy road!
The long and narrow one , that Christ told us about is the one that man wants out because you meet many difficult situations along the way.....and although you get tired, you arrive there knowing that you did as much as you could, be it good or bad along the way.

Man thinks that Fortune telling will solve their problems(I am guilty of this many times)...in the end it's another form of deceit by the devil and his demons.......leading you away from the true path of Christ to eternal damnation.
IX
helen

[David87]

Yes, I am guilty of fortune telling and such also. I made the mistake once of putting too much into what I thought was going to be the future. I am older and wiser now though, but I still have my prophecy calendar which lists all the major events that are supposed to happen over the next 11 years. I'm just waiting to see what happens and what doesn't. I want to survive the Apocalypse so I can see Jesus return while I'm in my living body, and if Jesus doesn't return, then I could assume everything I know is wrong or at least not entirely true.

I read almost all the Bible. There is at least one instance where what it says can't be true. It tells the story of Judas's death twice in two different ways. Only one death could be true since he only died once. In fact, the entire book of Acts is a little unbelievable. If the entire Bible isn't true, then there really is no way to say what is true and what is not except what we have historical proof of and that is very little. All we really know is that part of the Bible is true and part is untrue and the rest is undetermined. Only through faith can we really believe, and I don't have enough faith like I used to, to do whatever I think I should be doing based on the word of God. I did that and almost wound up in jail, but I'd rather not tell that story.

[William One Sac]

This magic stuff really has me confused. But be certain, I abhor magic. It is really foul, and I have never seen it used for good. It is always used for personal advancement. Take something simple, and seemingly innocent like a love spell. You want someone to love you. So you cast the spell. Seems harmless enough. Except that you have taken away that persons freeedom of choice, taken away their free will, which is really the most important gift God has given us. In a way it makes sense when you look at it like that. Magic takes away free will, thus it is inherintly (sic) evil.

[agentmoulder254]

That reminds me of A Clockwork Orange(I just saw it 2 days ago.)

[:D Smilee :D]

awhile before in this topic someone said "prove it" about the cards working (im too lazy to go see who it was lol).... well, they work for me.
I have a little booklet that came with my deck and everytime i deal the cards (once evry week or 2 weeks) i pay close attention to what the cards say. It is amazing how accurate it is! I dealt for my grandmother and it kept talking about troubles with close people, saddness, anger, disagreements, ect. that night she and my mom got in a huge fight...
also several other instances in which i am too lazy to type. just take my word for it lol.

also.... someone mentioned that the "the bible says evry thing about fortune telling is a lie". i dont think that its fair to use the bible as a source of fact since it is so controversial (especially on this site hehe)

[helen]

smilee the reading of the cards as you say does not prove that it knows the future........

My cousin(RIP) had his cards read by his daughter and she told him how great life will be and how he will suceed in what he's looking for......

He found out he had cancer ....and then 2 months later he passed away....
I remember telling him that fortune telling cards or other means of fortune telling are there to deceive....and he wouldn't beleive me.....
When he was sick and couldn't move much, he began to listen to me.....and understood what I was telling him....

Anyway.....just be careful of what is said.

IX
helen

[William One Sac]

<QUOTE><I>Originally posted by helen</I>
smilee the reading of the cards as you say does not prove that it knows the future........

My cousin(RIP) had his cards read by his daughter and she told him how great life will be and how he will suceed in what he's looking for......
</QUOTE>

The same thing happened to me helen. >( >( >(

I was living in my car and a born again Christian came to me and told me my woes were soon over and that God had spoke to her and told her all these wonderful things were coming my way... >( >( >(

Nothing could have been further from the truth! >( >( >(

[David87]

Yes, false prophets come in all forms, like me.

[agentmoulder254]

The thing is that the cards are so vague that you can relate them to anything, if you're looking for a specific thing, you'll find it everywhere. Even Nostradamus wasn't that vague.

[David87]

http://www.exodus2006.com/calculate.htm

Agent M, please go to that site and enter your name(s) and post the numbers. Just curious.

[William One Sac]

My number is 810. What does it mean???

[agentmoulder254]

678

[William One Sac]

678???

Thats amazing Agent M!!

A number like 678 is akin to such famous trios as:

123 and


456


Simply amazing! 8o

Now maybe David will stop by and explain himself....

I wonder what helens number is???

[David87]

It supposedly determines who the Antichrist is because his number would equal 666. I've talked about it a lot before on this site. It's very interesting.

444 - number of good and light usually: Jesus, Yshua, God Son, but also Lucifer (Lucifer was the angel of light)

636 - My number is 636. I'm not exactly sure what it means but people with this number tend to be doctors, scientists, prophets, etc. It seems to put me in good company.

660 and 666 - numbers for people who are either evil or powerful. It also seems to relate to certain alliances: Adolf Hitler, Osama bin Laden, Bush-Blair, Ronald Reagan, etc. Major cities and places where disasters happen also tend to have one of these numbers but not always: New York, London (I think?), Waco, Paris, etc.

678 - I've seen that number somewhere before, but can't remember where.

810 - That's weird Willie. I've never seen that number before that I remember. I don't know what it could mean.

888 - A very interesting number. It seems to show up with things that are powerful, usually either in relation to something nuclear or the Holy Spirit or large events. I can't remember any words or names with this number at the moment, but maybe later. Also related to Jesus.

906 - I don't know the exact meaning of this number but it tends to show up with words or names that go together. Often a person's last name and the name of the city where they either were born or died. Also number for Holy Spirit.
That's all I can think of right now but I know there's more numbers and examples of words and names that different numbers go with. I was just wondering if anyone here was evil. :)

[helen]

Im assuming that I use all of my name?

as in surname?

648

:o


IX
helen

[Commander Dankus]

the number for my first name is 540, and the number for my last name is 642. the one isn't really that interesting. but for my last name, it is the first three even numbers in reverse. probably little meaning behind it. but still. intriguing none the less. and silly tarot cards don't work well sometimes. i have a rider-waight (or however it's spelled) deck, and i have to admit i don't use it much. sometimes i do for kicks really. it kinda works sometimes. then again, my friend's aunty said i was gonna steal away a girl from him. like that would ever happen &)

[William One Sac]

Anyhow, I would sure like helen to give me a reading, if its possible to do that online.

[David87]

I don't think that's going to happen Willie.

If you gave me all your info I could steal your identity. I mean.... I could see how you fair in numerology.

[William One Sac]

That brings up an interesting point. I was considering with my sister yesterday that if a persons death certificate has their social security number on it, it may be possible to get a credit card in their name. Not actually thinking of doing anything like that, but it was an idea...

[:D Smilee :D]

so ru guys seriously telling me ull accept numeralogy but not tarot cards????????

when you shuffle, you need to concentrate before hand about a question you would like an answer to, i ask what is waiting for me in the near future. you CaNnOt get distracted and concentrate the entire time. Today i was outside so i wouldnt be bothered by my family or cats. I just sat on my deck and layed out my yoga mat. layed out small crystal shards. meditated. used those little chinese meditation balls (whatever there called). and then meditated on my question. shuffled the deck while still concentrating, and dealt while thinking of my question.

my family knows not to come outside when they see me on the mat cuz i get really pissed off/ angry when they break my concentration...
the more frequently you do it/practice with it the better you get at it and possible the more accurate.
ALSO: IF YOU DONT TRULY BELIEVE IT WILL WORK IT DOESNT!
i get really freaked out when they tell me something bad will happen. right now im keeping my eye on a few friends...

[agentmoulder254]

<QUOTE><I>Originally posted by :D Smilee :D</I>
so ru guys seriously telling me ull accept numeralogy but not tarot cards????????
</QUOTE>

I don't believe in either of them

[David87]

Yes, Moulder doesn't believe in anything these days

Smilee, you didn't listen to any of our constant talk about evil spirits and not trusting the cards? Good to know my word is valuable.

[:D Smilee :D]

lol of course it is! its just i sometimes dont read the big paragraphs hehe.
but no, i read most things, its just that im stubborn n since it works 4 me im not going 2 believe anyone who says it doesnt wen i already kno it does. &) ;)

[Commander Dankus]

i rarely use my tarot deck. mostly i forget it is there. then out of the blue i realize it is there and feel compelled to do a reading. i probably don't get good readings cause i don't fully believe in it. and i really don't believe so much in the devils spirits and the devils demons and such. i never really was one for religion &) but then again, if there are evil forces, i think that they are probably governed in a more loose structure than the central satan figure and his lesser demons. i'm a big fan of greek/roman/egyptian mythology and culture, and thus i favor the idea of multiple gods over one singular god. this then leads me to my theory that just like there are gods for all the good and such aspects of life, there are greater demons for some of the bad aspects in life. to me the idea of a sigular entity that can control all the facts of life is absurd. how can two entities, both focused on one segment of the world, the good and the bad, control all that happens on our world in one day? simply implausible. but if you factor in multiple gods and greater demons and such, you have yourself a feasible cosmic ruling and structure of the events of our world. 8o i'm rambling a little, lol. but then again, this is more how i view things

[:D Smilee :D]

tarot cards are mainly positive, not negative. i thinkif anything they have more to do with spirits then demons if anything.

[Commander Dankus]

good point smilee. if tarot cards had something to do with evil spirtits, why are they so popular? and if they really think they had something to do with evil spirits, don't you think more bad things would happen to you, instead of the lot of good things that can happnen? sure there are instances where they are wrong, but alot of times they can be right. Maybe tarot cards involve a combination of evil and good spirits, not just evil. since many of the cards only have negative denominations, while others have only good. others have both. therefore it could be a combo of good and bad spirits

[agentmoulder254]

<QUOTE><I>Originally posted by Commander Dankus</I>
good point smilee. if tarot cards had something to do with evil spirtits, why are they so popular? and if they really think they had something to do with evil spirits, don't you think more bad things would happen to you, instead of the lot of good things that can happnen? sure there are instances where they are wrong, but alot of times they can be right. Maybe tarot cards involve a combination of evil and good spirits, not just evil. since many of the cards only have negative denominations, while others have only good. others have both. therefore it could be a combo of good and bad spirits</QUOTE>

There are lots of flaws in that statement, evil things are just as, if not more, popular than good things. Evil can be used for your benefit and the misfortune of others, greed for example, you get money, every one else suffers. I don't believe in spirits, but if you do, the good/evil thing is probably right, there is an equal mix of good and evil everywhere in the world.

[Commander Dankus]

of course agent M, it's a little thing called balance. i admit that alot of bad things are popular too, but just as many good things are. the fact is that you just can't have everything all good or everything all bad. there has to be a sort of balance to the world. a sort of cosmic order i guess. if you read like books and shit and all that junk, especially fantasy, you hear alot about that order and balance thing. a key example is dragonlance, lol.

[William One Sac]

I think there is balance in nature, however I do not really understand the mechanisms behind it. I mean, why should there be balance between good and evil? The only reason I can think of is because there is a higher power at work that says there must be this balance. I am not speaking in intangible terms here either. I am speaking of the evil men do to each other. I mean, if your whole village is killed in a mudslide, it would seem to be an act of evil. But is it really? Can something that is just obeying the physical laws of nature really be considered evil?

[David87]

There is balance in nature and any scientist can tell you that. Unbalance seems to come from humanity which proves just how powerful we are. As far as the balance between good and evil, I don't know. Good and evil can only exists in a world in which there is a difference between the two and something to keep measure of that difference. That is, there must right and wrong and people must be responsible for their actions. Our actions must be out of our own free will. There should probably also be a spiritual world and a God for everything to work the right way as far as good and evil are concerned.

If there is no afterlife, no God, no spirits, no karma, no anything beyond this natural world, then there is no good or evil either except for what exists in the individual mind and what the majority says.

[Commander Dankus]

which brings up a good point. if there were no humans, would there be such thing as good and evil? i doubt it. good and evil are the invention of mankind. thus, they might not exist in the ways that we think they do

[agentmoulder254]

Here's a thought, maybe the human balance is just a perception of humans, because when something bad, but not terribly bad, happens and is popular among the people, it's a sign of the times. I don't know, maybe someone who's thought about this can add to the theory, but right now, it's just a thought.

[David87]

If you read the Bible, you'll see that people are basically the same today as they were back then. It actually says that people would always say "Things were better yesterday than today." However, when you see things that were prophesized in the Bible and other prophetic sources coming to pass then I think it's rather foolish not to recognize those things as "signs of the times".

If there is a God or a higher being, then you could say that he created good and evil. That is a big theological debate because if God created all things then that would include good and evil, but why would God create evil. The usual answer is so angels and people could choose between good and evil, instead of being naturally good, naturally evil, or neutral. At the same time though, we are told that humans are naturally evil from birth because of original sin.
If there is no higher being, and we the humans are as high as it gets, then yes, I would say that we are the creators of good and evil and they are concepts that exist only within our minds as well as many other concepts fundemental to our way of thinking and living. That is, unless there is something more to nature and the universe than what we can observe, some kind of laws that exist at the core of everything. Maybe I'm just rambling now.

[agentmoulder254]

I'm trying to think of a way to verbalize what I thought of in my head, I'll have to get back to you.

[:D Smilee :D]

i believe that there are also 'dark' tarot cards, but i wouldnt know as i am only interested in positive spirits,feelings,contacts,signs,messages,ect.

[William One Sac]

I had a dream last night that I was flying through the air through tree branches. It was dark, but I could just see the branches, no leaves on them, and I couldnt see the ground or the sky. The really strange part id some websites were chasing me, and they were pulling the branches back and then letting them go, so that the branches would whip at me and make a whipping sound. I couldnt see the web sites of course, however I knew they were there and I knew which ones they were.

[:D Smilee :D]

uh, i think u meant to put this under 'dreams and their sillyness'
lol

[William One Sac]

That was a nightmare, not a silly dream.

[:D Smilee :D]

well SO-RRY! :) :P

[William One Sac]

Anyhow, I got tired of talking about tarot cards and tried to change the subject. :lol At which I failed, the subject has been derailed! :(

[agentmoulder254]

Grandmaster Willie is a rhyme king

[David87]

But I'm the mike master cuz my rhymes is faster.
Southside! Represent!

[helen]

Hey did you know if you unjumble the letters T A R O T
you get


T R A T O ......well TRATOR!

Ok, fine ....thought I would help WOS with his Dream the ''silliness'' dream.
:)

IX helen

[antarrishu]

Taht is REALLY pushing it.Then that would mean that anyone who has ever picked up the upinshads the koran giia or bible are also traitors!

[antarrishu]

WOS here is one for you, so dont derail! The card I pull for you is "Abundance"From Masytery of the Physical- King of Rainbows- Minor Arcana- The Dionysian character is the very picture of a whole man, a "Zorba the Buddha",who can drink wine,dance on the beach and sing in the rain,and at the samae time enjoy the depts of understanding and wisdom that belong to the sage.In one hand he holds a lotus,showing that he respects and contains within himself the grace of the feminine. His exposed chest(an open heart) and relaxed belly show that he is at home w/ his masculinity as well, utterly self contained.The 4 elements of earth, fire, water and sky all conjunct at the King of Rainbowswho sits atop the book of the wisdom of life.For a man , this card represents a time of breaking through the conventional male steeotypes and following the fullness of the whole human being to shine forth. ABUNDANCE ^^^In the east people have condemed the body,condemed matter,called matter "illousory", maya,-it does not really exist,it only appears to exist: it is made of the same stuff as dreams are made of.They denied the world, and that is the reason for the east remaining poor, sick, in starvation.Half of humanity has been accepting the inner world but denying the outer world. The other half of humanity has been accepting the material world and denying the inner world. Both are half, and no man that is half can be contented.You have to be whole: rich in the body, rich in science,rich in meditation, rich in consciousness.Only a whole person is a holy person, according to me.I want Zorba and Buddha to meet together.Zorba alone is hollow.His dance has not an eternal significance, it is a momentary pleasure.Soon he will be tired of it.Unless you have inexhaustable sources, available to you from the cosmos itsself...unless you become extential,you cannot become whole.This is my contribution to humanity: the whole person. From the Osho Zen Tarot , rishu

[antarrishu]

David, " SORROW "from the minor arcana 9 of clouds, clouds represent the mind...The image is of Ananda, the cousin and disciple of Gautam Buddha.He was at Buddha's side constantly,attending to his every need for 42 years.When Buddha died, the story was told that Ananda was still at his side, weeping.The other disciples chastized him for his misunderstanding:Buddha had died absolutly fulfilled; he should be rejoicing.But Ananda said," You misunderstand.I am weeping not for him but for myself, because for al these years I have been constantly at his side but I have still not attained."Ananda stayed awake for the whole night , meditating deeply and feeling his pain and sorrow.By the morning it is said, he was enlightened.**Times of great sorrow have the potential to be times of great transformation.But in order for your transformation to happen we must go deep, to the very roots of your pain, and experience it as it is, without blame or self pity.SORROW^^^ This pain is not to make you sad., remember people go on missing...This pain is just to make you more alert- because people become alet only when the arrow goes deep into their heart and wounds them.Otherwise they dont become alet. When life is easy, comfortable, convient, who cares? Who bothers to become alert. When a friend dies, ther is a possibility.When your woman leaves you alone- those dark nights, you are lonely.You have loved that woman so much and you have staked all, and then suddenly one day she is gone.Crying in your loneliness, those are the occassions when, if you use them, you can become aware.The arrow is hurting, it can be used.The pain is not to make you miserable,the pain is to make you more aware!! And when you are aware,misery disappears. The transendental game of zen, rishu

[antarrishu]

Smillee, Magor Arcana, "Condtioning" This card recalls and old Zen stoy about a lion who was brought up by sheep and who thought he was a sheep untill an old lion captured him and took him to a pond, where he showed him his own reflection.Many of us are like this lion-the image we have of ourselves come not from our own direct experience but from the oppinions of others.A "personality" imposed by others.A personality imposed from the out side replaces the individuality that could have grown from within. We become just another sheep in the herd, unable to move freely, and unconscious of our own true identity.^^ Its time to take a look at your own reflection in the pond, and make a move to break free out of what ever you have been conditioned by others to believe about your self.Dance, run, jog, do gibberish (a great meditation) what ever is needed to wake up the sleeping lion within. CONDITIONING^^^ Unless you drop your personality you will not be able to find your individuality.Individuality is given by existance: personality is imposed by the society.Personality is social convienience.Society cannot tolerate individuality, because individuality will not follow like a sheep.Individuality has the quality of the lion:the lion moves alone. The sheep are always in the crowd, hoping that being in the crowd will feel cozy.Being in the crowd one feels more protected, secure.If somebody attacks, there is every possibility in a crowd to save yourself.But alone? - only the lions move alone.And everyone of you is born a lion, but the society goes on conditioning you,programing your mind as asheep.It gives you apersonality, a cozy personality, nice, very convenient,very obedient.Society wants slaves, not people who are absolutley dedicated to freedom.Society wants slaves because all the vested interests want obedience. From the Osho Zen Tarot. rishu

[antarrishu]

I love Tarot.It is not the only divination techinique to use, but I really love it. And I have also been known to strip naked and go lie face down and arms and legs stretched out like a new born babe on its mothers breast,when you close your eyes and breathe heart to heart with mother earth, she comforts like only a new mama can.Let the tears fall not just from your eyes but from every pore of your being and I promise you will never be the same.

[William One Sac]

I feel pretty whole. Although I am much less materialistic in some certain senses since my surgery. On the otherhand I am very materialistic in some senses, as I love collecting dvds and watching some certain tv shows. I am a deeply spiritual person, and I like to meditate and when I do I gain insight into some esoteric things that are very hard to explain in words. Awareness? What do you think the name of this website means? :) Hint: Its not random.

[RADIODADMAN]

<QUOTE><I>Originally posted by antarrishu</I>
Smillee, Magor Arcana, "Condtioning" This card recalls and old Zen stoy about a lion who was brought up by sheep and who thought he was a sheep untill an old lion captured him and took him to a pond, where he showed him his own reflection.Many of us are like this lion-the image we have of ourselves come not from our own direct experience but from the oppinions of others.A "personality" imposed by others.A personality imposed from the out side replaces the individuality that could have grown from within. We become just another sheep in the herd, unable to move freely, and unconscious of our own true identity.^^ Its time to take a look at your own reflection in the pond, and make a move to break free out of what ever you have been conditioned by others to believe about your self.Dance, run, jog, do gibberish (a great meditation) what ever is needed to wake up the sleeping lion within. CONDITIONING^^^ Unless you drop your personality you will not be able to find your individuality.Individuality is given by existance: personality is imposed by the society.Personality is social convienience.Society cannot tolerate individuality, because individuality will not follow like a sheep.Individuality has the quality of the lion:the lion moves alone. The sheep are always in the crowd, hoping that being in the crowd will feel cozy.Being in the crowd one feels more protected, secure.If somebody attacks, there is every possibility in a crowd to save yourself.But alone? - only the lions move alone.And everyone of you is born a lion, but the society goes on conditioning you,programing your mind as asheep.It gives you apersonality, a cozy personality, nice, very convenient,very obedient.Society wants slaves, not people who are absolutley dedicated to freedom.Society wants slaves because all the vested interests want obedience. From the Osho Zen Tarot. rishu</QUOTE>

Well said. But the good new is that everyone on this board is not cemented to what they profess to believe. And I know this because, if they were, they wouldn't be here. So I'm assuming that everyone here is not rigid in their beliefs, even if they think they are. I like to think of the various religions, phiosophies , sciences and occult teachings, etc. as having discovered a piece of the ' jigsaw puzzle'. But all the pieces are scrambled in one box. What each of us must do is to pluck out the correct piece in order to decifer and construct? , the true nature of our existence. All of us know more than any one of us and we're all correct in some aspects and completely wrong on others. That we continue to search, is what has brought us together. The truth is out there - finding it's a bitch. You should embrace all and dismiss none.

[khat13]

The bible is a compilation of works of several writers. They re issued and left out what they did not want or deem worthy. That is why there are several books that are separate ie: The book of Enoch, Jubilees and etc. To get a complete overview you need to read ALL of the books. As for believing that everything is evil - I look at it this way - you need to be aware that everything that humans have ie: fire,tools,make-up(:pjust for girls) and medical knowledge were all given to humanity by angels(supposedly) if you read all of the books you will discover this and then you can decide what is evil and what is not. I think that humans were given the ability to foretell events as a way of letting them know in advance to duck and cover from things that were beyond their control. After all, as a parent I know I do this for my kids... doesn't everybody? So, why would it be any different for OM?